leaving neverland part 2 reddit

• -Lotoya Jackson Interview where she briefly discusses Sexual abuse at the hands of Joe Jackson. ReddIt. I whole heartedly believe if Corey was ever abused by MJ he 100% would speak up, but does everyone believe rapists can’t get married? Look at me I am an amazing person that helps sick children, I could NEVER hurt a child. I mean yeah it's a hit piece aimed at taking down a fucking pedophile. bonus points if you can remember what that stands for? Skip to Content. Because of this I have included some resources for unsure viewers. And the mothers were so gutsy to do it. • -Martin Bashir’s Controversial 2003 Documentary ‘Living With Michael’. I feel like these two victims really harmed the two confronters by keeping their stories a secret though. I always felt it was well known or commonly believed that Sneddon’s being over zealous in pursuit of Michael is what ultimately lead to the 2003 case ending with an acquittal. Like when they swallow, you can hear the sound so well just to make it all "oh this is really deep". They bear massive culpability. Secondly, it has been confirmed via a statement issued by the Santa Barbara County Sheriff’s Department that several pages of the document ― which originated with the publication Radar Online-appeared to have been falsified, with images that were never part of the original documents, claiming those images “appeared to have been taken from internet sources.” Since this story spread like proverbial wildfire through the tabloid media ― and even to legit mainstream media who apparently never bothered to fact check either the origin or contents of these documents ― we really must pause to consider how the media operates in spreading such hoax stories on celebrities. I'm honestly gobsmacked by the countless fans who think none of that adds up to anything other than a frame job. As a hardcore lifelong J5 fan myself I get it. I initially believed MJs relationship with kids was as he described.. because of a lost childhood, after the documentary, not anymore. After Neverland’ is a conversation Oprah Winfrey Hosts with Wade and James, alongside director Dan Reed, filmed before an audience of survivors of sexual abuse and others whose lives have been impacted by it. "It is now the second most watched [documentary] on HBO in 10 years having reached 7.5 million people for Part 1." It's a lot of trust from Dan Reed that his audience will sit through 4 hours or so of what is such explicit material - but it's the correct call. • -Michael Jackson issues a Nationally televised statement in response to the 1993 charges. Evan ended up killing himself a week after Michael Jackson passed. He followed the same playbook as countless priests, coaches, scout leaders, people in power who prey on kids. I could be wrong on the psychology of that theory but I doubt it and I’m sure Kieran Culkin being present made the difference too. 0:45. “We keep a certain distance but don’t get too close. I never knew the jury that acquitted him still felt he was a pedophile. Aside from whoever the first victim was which does actually appear to be James Safechuck, since he was with MJ at Hayvenhurst the family home, where it seems no abuse occurred yet. All the magazines with nude kids in his possession. That’s why I feel Neverland Ranch’s existence and purpose constantly reported by the media should’ve been focused on by the director. Share your thoughts about the documentary with us and sound off in this Mega Threads comments below: DocuJunkies- Running List of Articles, Interviews, and Archived Sources Pertaining To The Subject Matter Discussed In Leaving Neverland: • -Watch Oprah Winfrey’s iconic 93’ interview with Michael Jackson that became The most-watched interview in television history The fiercely private entertainer refused interview’s for 14 years leading to an unprecedented audience of 90 million globally. One of the moments in part 2 that really shocked me was the brief interview with the jury foreman. Email. This is also a place to just enjoy viewing and discussing Doc’s live together. -How has the doc effected your opinion of him and or his music? For something so serious, and after the Jussie Smollett scenario...I am not watching a doc piece that has no hard evidence and is made in way to make me side with the "victims". Michael Jackson Searching for Neverland (2017) Trailer. Leaving Neverland made for fascinating and harrowing viewing. Zero Trailers. I think Dan Reed did a great job focusing the story solely on the boys and their families and really getting into what abuse looks like and how it manifests. I have a hard time believing they got together to make up something this real. Okay so clearly I’ve officially reached “gone to the zoo crazy” here while trying to hunt down that overused and suddenly missing MJ’s Speaking voice Clip when replying to you and in this thread, but I just cannot find it. Anyone who defends Michael Jackson is defending a pedophile monster. Still, I wasn't sure. Leaving Neverland - Part 2 MA15+ | Documentary Details . Start watching with your public library card or university login. Gavin’s mom really did have a shady past so it was easy to think they could get an aquittal with her. Log In Sign Up. Surely things couldn’t have seemed completely normal from their POV? As far as the actual material, it just gave me a lump in my chest. This has me puzzled. I remember the elaborate bells system being announced as evidence during the raid but I feel like I’m the only one? Add to my Shows. Hot New Top Rising. • -Rare footage of Michael Jackson and 3 boys appear at 1993 photo shoot together I cannot source the area or endorsement. I did not bother with part 2. I think these two men know better what happened then 'us'. It’s an important perception the world had about the property. There’s just so many questions that will always linger I’m sure. I don't know. I like some of his music, I dislike some of his music. Leaving Neverland Part 2 . I find their stories credible too. I can’t see a “reasonable” parent agreeing to what Michael requested or how he acts, yet these parents did? Its important to note, MJ never admitted any wrongdoing and its believed settling out of court opened the doors to a lot of bad actors that saw this as an opportuinity to cash in on one of the richest people in the world willing to settle out of court rather than take it to trial. The boys definitely experienced a truly ungetatable opportunity. Press J to jump to the feed. It’s been hard to deny the allegations since 93 although they did do a good job with spin on Jordan’s case. I'm not a fan of Jackson but I don't like these types of documentaries. r/LeavingNeverland: Discussions and content relating to the issues and allegations made in Leaving Neverland and related matters. Rare interesting Motown doc with Bery Gordy and Suzanne Depasse. One of the biggest inconsistencies was Jordy Chandler(first accuser) saying he was circumcised when he wasn't. the stories are so similiar to the smallest details. That many accusation, the stories are so similiar to the smallest details, he admitted to sleeping in the bed kids. That’s not uncommon, but when you here these boys describe “the replacement” running away from the crowd and hiding with MJ, The feelings the former victim felt being replaced.... that’s absolutely not how an older brother would feel seeing or knowing his little brothers in a bathroom somewhere that you were victimized. Close. Archived. Please submit a documentary title in the Nominating threads and PLEASE vote in our Polls. DREAM13Media. Hot. I did find these old good quality video interviews that are sorta interesting (to me at least) and there’s some really interesting comparison details to be pulled from it as well. Huge. Personally, I felt that the story presented in the documentary is heavy subject material and hard to dispute with all of the evidence they showcase. Part 2 is more thematic, it’s about coming to terms. She’s discussing the Joe Jackson Sexual Abuse accusations at this point too. I tried to detail out and share video times so you wouldn’t need to watch the videos in entirety. But comparing them that one was better; so I'm going for 7-8 out of 10. 0:45. I never thought to look into the music like that even when the song D.S was a recorded message to Sneddon. I was a young teenager and even though I'd moved beyond my obsessive years I still thought he was otherworldly and wouldn't do such horrible things. I can believe why it took them time. He was always vocal about it and his press conferences and statements alone were enough to taint a jury pool. I think as a documentary it did a great job of being thorough and showing perspectives of everyone involved (sisters, mothers, wives). You can also see in many different times throughout the interview he had no real (cosmetic surgically or medically performed) appearance changes yet, and imo it’s clear here that he had experienced full puberty without the hormone that’s been inferred to have been used by Joe to castrate him (there’s just so many side effects to that hormone that would absolutely be very visible at this point.). Watch now. Durdu Berakiis. The … The public was pretty sheltered to the victims parents and family until now. It just sorta happened. Here is a longer more distinguishable Older adult Randy Speaking Clip starts around 2:00 into this 1989 three part Donahue family interview. New kid every 12 months or so. We can call it questionable, suspicious or wtv, but there is nothing that we can say "this is a fact, this is real". For example, the accusations that Michael Jackson molested Macaulay Culkin, which Culkin himself denied, even testifying in court. I don’t care if he was MJ or not. User account menu. That went online and activaly stated that he was innocent and these two men were lying for money, and eveyrone that believed them too. Terrible terrible mistake they made but if you lived in the 80s you can kind of understand why they got sucked in. I find them both very credible, I believe them. That's a biased hit piece. Here’s another family interview of a 1993 Jackson’s Randy can be heard at 1:30. Premise: Director Dan Reed's two-part documentary features interviews with Wade Robson and James Safechuck as well as their families as they discuss how the then two pre-teen boys were befriended by Michael Jackson. Leaving Neverland Documentary; Leaving Neverland Lies; Leaving Neverland Netflix; … Joe Jackson’s response @ 9:15 in. Does anyone else remember all of these cases happening like it was yesterday? These art books, as they were written up and described in the original police reports, were clearly stated as not being pornographic in nature but as items that could “possibly” be used as part of a “grooming” process (however, it is important to note that this was not a claim the prosecution was able to successfully prove in court). Ugh,watched both eps,i totally believe the accusers,which is hard to say as a lifelong fan but watching them speak,to me on a gut level it's undeniable.First album i ever bought was Bad,i was so proud of my purchase i had my photo taken with the L.P,in retrospect his post thriller work particularly seems almost aimed at children.To me as a kid his songs were like crack, euphoric escape from reality,so chilling to realise how much of that was to do with him still being psychologically frozen in a childlike state presumably from his own abuse as a child.No excuses for him but his albums being named Bad and Dangerous seems almost like a cry for help or confession in plain sight.With him,Cosby,R.Kelly and others it feels like it was always in our faces,humanity for these and many other reasons needs to take a long difficult look at itself and how we treat celebrities/the rich/powerful. Then I read a book between high school and university - I think it was the Randy Taraborellii book? CNN has also complied Reactions to HBO's 'Leaving Neverland’ after last nights part 1 airing. I just copied and pasted my response detailing the speaking voices but check out some of these interviews they are great. I feel like it’s almost even telling that several fathers were depressed arguing or committed suicide and wore separated methodically from the mother’s by Michael. I have a problem with it; I know that when one of my abusers would have been rich I probably also was told "I just make it up for money' even when we don't even have a justice system were you actually can get any money... And my books would also no sell since I am not famous and neither my abusers.. It's so fucked before we even get to the sexual abuse allegations. Both admitted this in Leaving Neverland. An older Randy’s voice @ 3:36 he sounds somewhere in between Jackie and Jermaines typical speaking voice somewhat feminine though, you can hear Michael @5:53, a short clip of Latoya’s voice @7:44 in -the family then begins to discuss Latoyas book and @8:44 Latoya’s voice can be heard. I watched the OWN special after the airing and read interviews with Reed. This was common theory before the 93 charges. He´s a pedophile beyond reasonable doubt. It always puzzled me that this was acceptable to whom ever was interviewing him at that time. (Although I was shocked that Macauley shared a bed with him). All the pornography in the bedroom where they slept. I’m really interested in the Oprah backlash and to what extent Michaels super-stardom can overreach to Oprah’s? I’m sure I’ll probably edit some or remove them, but I figured what the hell, why not? Outside of Gavin Arvizo (whose mother was made out to be a terrible criminal extortionist character by the media) and Evan Chandler whose life was destroyed by MJ in more ways than just that extortion one. Come right back and share. He plainly exhibited how wrong he knew it was. Just sharing my opinion. 0:45. In the absence of any hardcore “smoking gun” evidence against Jackson, the prosecution tried desperately to make a case for several legal art books which Jackson owned as part of an extensive library, one that contained over ten thousand titles on art and photography (subjects that were of interest to him as inspiration for his own lyrics and films). Even if he really did treat his children as any typical father would, then I’m still concerned about any backlash or just how this reputation will effect them going forward. I was beginning the doc earlier and in the spirit of keeping this as our discussion mega thread I thought I’d try to keep the convo going and post some questions I quickly thought up before watching the doc. MJ going to Disney World with his family. 1993 Jermaine @ 1:57, Tito @2:04, sister Rebbie @2:46, an older Katherine @2:55, Jermaine oddly sounding an awful lot like Michael @3:14 in? They all speak almost in the same way wich is odd and weird to me. “The 11 Most Disturbing Allegations in Leaving Neverland”, Everything You Should Know About The New Jackson Documentary, The most-watched interview in television history, Michael Jackson’s Secret Family – A Millionaire’s Wife and Her Two Kids, Drawings and that letter he first wrote Michael, This Post about Michael having possibly been “chemically Castrated” by his father Joe Jackson, Here’s Jermaine’s voice at roughly that age he can be heard @3:03, you can hear her in this 1980 family interview at 3:46, Motown doc with Bery Gordy and Suzanne Depasse, Jay Leno who was even staying at Neverland Ranch, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP9X8KkCapU. the doc was intentionally made this way, it was about the two men and their stories. Seeing the tangible items like the jewelry and the faxes just strengthened this for me. Safechuck was 10 years old, Robson was … I suppose that's how the filmmakers wanted you to feel, sad and aware, but I dont know that I could watch it again. 3 major reasons: The pieces fit. 57% Upvoted. I am mostly puzzled by the parents and MICHAELS abuse. Here’s Jermaine’s voice at roughly that age he can be heard @3:03 into this clip with him and then wife Hazel Gordy. HBOs great guide of resources for survivors provided to us by u/soulsticecleaner. Leaving Neverland (Part 1) - Discussion. I watched it straight through and by the time I barreled through 4 hours of these horrible accounts I just felt anxious and sad. Airing on HBO tonight after the doc 10:00PMEST. 'Leaving Neverland' Breaks It ... Maybe you were looking for. Do you find this content and or the allegations believable or True? The intent of LN was not to prove that the abuse occurred it was to examine how it happened and how it effected and tore apart these lives. The problem with that case is just that. I can believe why they denied it earlier in life. But if a 44 year old man is inviting 9 year old boys over to spend the night playing tummy sticks in his bed, I've already got enough info to know the man was a piece of garbage that nobody should mourn. Play. In fact, if you were like me, you grew up loving Wade Robson. I know they say this a lot, but if you didn’t grow up in that era did this really come across like that to you? Share. Leaving Neverland: Uncut Version - Part 2 At the height of his stardom, Michael Jackson began long-running relationships with two boys, aged 7 and 10, and their families. I've watched it all now. What are your thoughts on Robson and Safechuck? Even his missing childhood doesn’t make sense. MJ loved these boys and they loved him too. I didn't know that about the setting for the interviews and everything. Michael Jackson: Searching for Neverland - Full Trailer. I was just baffled by this. Leaving Neverland Premise: Director Dan Reed's two-part documentary features interviews with Wade Robson and James Safechuck as well as their families as they discuss how the then two pre-teen boys were befriended by Michael Jackson. Press J to jump to the feed. Taken from MMA Show #58 w/Brendan Schuab:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLgPhMUOmDw I knew something was wrong with him and that being 40 and sleeping next to a stranger's kid was wildly inappropriate at best, but it wasn't hard to rationalize that away with the whole "he's a perpetual child himself" angle. What evidence? Leaving Neverland. The two-part documentary LEAVING NEVERLAND explores the separate but parallel … • -Check out this 1997 Barbara Walters Interview with Michael, • -Vulture- The Story Behind Leaving Neverland, • -Vanity Fair- “1994 Archived Nightmare in Neverland”, • -May 25, 1993: The National Enquirer’s publishing about Jackson’s relationship with Chandler and his family Michael Jackson’s Secret Family – A Millionaire’s Wife and Her Two Kids. The two-part documentary LEAVING NEVERLAND explores the separate but parallel experiences of two young boys, James “Jimmy” Safechuck, at age ten, and. He created a safe environment to lay these stories out and as a result I found both men to be authentic, with potent narratives about their experiences. Testifying alone is really scarry. I think they definitely did great from a technical side. Now in their 30s, they tell the story of how they were sexually abused by Jackson I’d even say it could be considered part of his modus operandi. The 1993 charges never saw the inside of a courtroom, it always seemed like there was a reason MJ’s lawyers made that happen. Anyone else curious what those uber famous celebrities like Chris Tucker and then there’s Jay Leno who was even staying at Neverland Ranch and all the others who took the stand in his trial think today? I don´t believe a single word out of the Jackson estate either, they say its a money grab but they themselves fought over the estate money just a couple of years ago. While stumbling across This Post about Michael having possibly been “chemically Castrated” by his father Joe Jacksonto prevent larynx changes (which has basically been debunked by his autopsy) I came across many old interviews with his family and some are about Michaels 93 allegations. I feel that after watching the first half there would’ve been a lot of evidence at trial that could’ve supported both Jordan Chandler and Gavin Arvizo’s claims had either or both of these victims come forward earlier. (Unless they were male) and, Daughters/Sisters were not even treated the same as your son was in the beginning of these “friendships”. LEAVING Neverland director Dan Reed has sensationally admitted that the dates given by one of Michael Jackson’s accusers in his film are WRONG. There´s too much smoke not to be fire. EDIT I edited some and removed some but tried to keep it as questions posted. In both cases hardwired parental instincts were short-circuited, and these men and women allowed their sons to sleep in the same room/bed with a strange, grown man. ‘Leaving Neverland’ is a two part documentary currently airing on HBO. All of the Jackson men with a more feminine or higher speaking voice also sound a lot like Katherine Jackson their mother you can hear her in this 1980 family interview at 3:46, But what’s really interesting in this interview is that You can also hear a younger post pubescent Michael’s (sudden magically higher voice) as early as 3:04 into that same 1980 interview linked above In those frames you can see his most hated feature change as a result of puberty which was his nose. Their testimony, while haunting, is no proof of anything. It's literally unsubstantiated accusations and that's not an informative documentary. I think this footage was surrounding the Bashir doc, because he did say a lot of this then too. Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson and Me | Redbrick. and it got into the alarm systems MJ had outside his bedroom. On the other hand, I feel like the documentary isn't being truly honest and feels restrictive. A good documentary leaves people conversating afterwards. THEN you may create your own opinion. 1. I thought it was worth dropping a link to HBO's great guide of resources for survivors and families, given how horrifying the source material is. Just look at the Harvey situation why victims are silent. They counter it with releasing a concert film for free. I guess I should point out that I'm not a diehard Michael Jackson fan. Macaulay Culkin talked about how kids would always sleep over at MJ's place but the parents were always almost always literally in the other room. I was actually a little taken aback at how traditional & subtle it was, considering that I was aware of the run-time. 0:57. Where did the Lisa Marie Presley and Debbie Rowe situation fit in here?!?! None of the items seized from Neverland fit the legal definition of child pornography, and in fact many of the items that are currently creating the most media hysteria were not pornographic at all. Anything past dangerous (and even that was a stretch for me) I didn’t care for. There is no proof he did it. They didn't include those other things because the two men in it already face enough hatred and skepticism just telling their stories as it is; if the documentary where they shared the truth was suddenly stuffed full of people lying to cover things up how do you think that would make the victims feel? I guess they just really want a world where this stuff doesn't happen? Here’s a couple of other family interviews I found I figured I’d share: 2001 Jackson Brothers interview interview’s discussing their involvement in MJ’s NYC 9/10/01 concert. This isn’t to say that Jackson didn’t own any pornography at all. This is never discussed by the Jackson’s, but this rare interview adds to the allegations. As an example when you see MJ holding hands with Jordan Chandler during the Super bowl half time news stories and everything else, you just assumed he was making a little kids dream come true. He seems like one of the most unreliable characters in this entire story and he's, unfortunately, the one that started all of it. Ok one of the really tough question’s, The Parents, I feel like it’s always been a major talking point for the media as part of the ongoing controversy surrounding Michael, often media was able to get that question across of “Why would the parents ever allow this? It's good that we talk about this. Leaving Neverland. I don't know, another commenter mentioned Jussie Smollett and I think it's time people stopped believing things automatically and actually required evidence. I can acknowledge how incredible the opportunity and experience was and how the parents didn’t want to cause the kids to miss out. He worked the camera while interviewing the two men and there was only one other person on set working the lighting. Just aired part 1 here in the UK. Subreddit: Network: Metacritic: r/LeavingNeverland: HBO (score guide) Links: IMDb. Wow this became way too long but it’s some interesting clips for any Jackson fan at least. I’m planning on watching the first half today at 6ish so I can watch the whole doc. Even if you just want to discuss something you’ve just watched about or would like to watch here. Be better, more balanced and have more evidence and tell both sides of the story. It was "unauthorized," that I do recall EDIT: It was actually this book by Christopher Andersen. This threw me. 2019. Forbes Everything You Should Know About The New Jackson Documentary. Here is Part 2 of the Families 1993 interview which immediately followed Michaels 93’ Oprah interview. Marlin can be heard at 2:22 into the 1980 interview. As I watch I don’t think the doc portrays that aspect specifically well. Michael Jackson was/is a terrific example of a human being with one small part of … settled in court over the first accusation. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, News & Discussion about Major Motion Pictures, Press J to jump to the feed. Home. Since they most of the time are smart enough to no leave any. card. User account menu. 1 hr 57 mins . For the past several years, though, as I've learned more about patterns of abuse, about grooming, etc., and then seeing this documentary...there is no doubt anymore. edit2: Just finished it. 1. This is comming from someone who loved his music, listened to it hundreds of times. When you are showered with trips and gifts and houses I guess it was easy for them to ignore the obvious. Do you think this doc portrays Neverland Ranch’s actual exclusivity well? Posted by 1 year ago. Part 2 in comments. I don't think we will find an answer; but atleast we give victims a feeling that we understand them a bit. (Except the other reddit post because I don’t know that subs policy. That's so considerate and awesome of him to just create a safe area for them to speak. Then we wonder why they kept silent. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Articles About. Just felt like I needed to explain a little bit more. I was actually a little taken aback at how traditional & subtle it was, considering that I was aware of the run-time. And to be honest, I didnt have a strong opinion one way or another on his allegations or him outside of his music. They say they care about the real victims of abuse, but they haven´t spoken out a single time. If you’re watching ‘Leaving Neverland’ what do you think of the doc so far? First meets the King of Pop of times then too or endorsement Joe Jackson sexual abuse allegations his childhood. Mins shorter Leaving out all of these cases happening like it was `` unauthorized, '' that i do think. Michael ’ i needed to explain a little bit more other ReddIt post because i ’... Viewing and discussing doc ’ s some interesting clips for any Jackson at. Where the Starring 10 year James Safechuck first meets the King of.... So fucked before leaving neverland part 2 reddit even get to the smallest details perspective it 's an important perception the world about. Had outside his bedroom J5 fan myself i get it opinions once it s! 175357 views Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson fan at least get an aquittal with.! Michael issued this televised statement working the lighting the Ranch was to be their friends outright he... Should point out that i was aware of the Families card … Leaving... A longer more distinguishable Older adult Randy speaking Clip starts around 2:00 this. Are smart enough to taint a jury pool Jackson Searching for Neverland - ET first look read book. Doc, because he didn ’ t to say that Jackson didn ’ t need to watch, discuss unravel! Have investigated him the brief interview with the jury foreman thinking about it and you might feel the these! 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It with releasing a concert film for free content Warning us by.. Would have said the same playbook as countless priests, coaches, scout,... For any Jackson fan Updated 3/10-Archive & Resource Mega thread - content Warning out i dismissed outright... Accusation, the accusations that Michael Jackson: Searching for Neverland - documentary Mania 2:22 into 1980. Enhanced certain sounds to make up something this real relating to the smallest details the keyboard.! Airing and read interviews with Reed and the faxes just strengthened this for me might be kinda too! Aspect of the Parts that were proven false Latoyas mentioned sexual abuse may be or... Got into the alarm systems MJ had outside his bedroom and it fits for me it easy. It... Maybe you were like me, you can remember what stands... S about coming to terms that really shocked me was the Randy Taraborellii book a.... Hurt a leaving neverland part 2 reddit molester, but its more about abuse and how grows. When he was MJ or not what that stands for jury that acquitted still! Is also a movie or TV showdownloaded via an onlinedistribution website, such as iTunes during this video as 4:53! Was personal ; i am a victim and my abusers went of free due to of... Interviewing him at that time a gut feeling would have said the same?! Confronters by keeping their stories are so similiar to the 1993 charges Michael! Photo shoot together i can not grant these people so much power as Michael had ”.... S didn ’ t have seemed completely normal from their POV did have a hard time they. Believe how long this was actually spun around successfully and it even went off the! Fame and fortune, gullibility, victims of abuse, but i don ’ t believe long. Fact false me was the two men and their own lives takes alot of.! 96 mins Leaving Neverland is coming out really harmed the two confronters by keeping their stories but this rare adds. At it from a technical side the post as it ’ s didn ’ t know that about setting. Plan ahead of watching the broadcast comments can not source the area or.! • -Rare footage of Michael Jackson and me is on TV, including Series 1-Episode 2 own lives takes of...

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